Chris Craft Commander

Post by **mercaholic** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:31 pm

Picked up this little worn out treasure....

I heard Lee Holland had a medical issue so seeking another source of parts.

Anyone got anything available?

Post by **Tom Brockmeyer** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:50 pm

Ignition parts are pretty much same as Merc...

Carb is a Carter, same as Merc...

Bearings & seals are from local supply store (like Mercs...)

Sure looks like a Merc.... Hey! ECK should SUE those guys for copying the KG-7 (Nevermind... I read now that's exactly what happened)

John, exactly what parts are you after on that Commander (don't say "lower cowling")

Tom

Post by **mercaholic** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:53 pm

Lots of similarity to the KG7.

A little known fact is that the impeller from a KG7 will fit into the Commander...

Right now, three items come to mind. One is decals, the other items are a rubber grip and carb levers.

Post by **mercaholic** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:11 am

Found the parts I needed...

Post by **mercaholic** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:31 pm

BONUS....

Decent ignition Components

Post by **mercaholic** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:21 pm

Tom Brockmeyer wrote:Carb is a Carter, same as Merc...

Actually, it was a Tillotson carb on those. Looks very similar to the Carter design however.

Post by **mercaholic** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:46 pm

In my quest to see how far CC went to mimic Kiekhaefer KG7 model, I have been slowly tearing into this motor.

More to come as I proceed.

Post by **mercaholic** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:40 pm

More comparisons follow

Post by **mercaholic** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:38 pm

Done and tank tested.

Post by **Fingerlakeskid** » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:04 am

Looks great John!

Post by **Peter** » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:56 am

She’s a beauty

Post by **mercaholic** » Sun May 12, 2019 8:54 pm

Took the Commander out for a run yesterday and while it started and idled ok, it just did not top out like I seem to recall these things do so I removed the carb to find this had happened.

I must have missed it when I originally took off the carb to clean it.

On the plus side, after 2 hrs of running and fiddling, the original coils didn't break down.

I now have a lead on another Commander to persue tomorrow. If I score it, I will continue this thread

Post by **mercaholic** » Thu May 16, 2019 12:45 pm

The new project.

A little rougher than my previous projects with a few dents and bruises. Apparently it was found lying on it's side in a guy's back yard area near it's birthplace in Algonac, Michigan.

Compression is only 75 psi on No.1 and 95 on No.2 jug so hoping just stuck rigs that will free up after I tank test it altho I'll first pull off the exhaust cover to see if any scoring.

At least this one came with the hard to find factory shrouds and most of the other parts seem intact.

Post by **mercaholic** » Tue May 21, 2019 12:02 am

Back from the soda-blaster.

Luckily, it came cheap as the factory paint or what was left of it, came off easy....

Post by **mercaholic** » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:05 am

Finally got it on the water.

I must admit that these models are strong runners so to me it's no wonder that Carl didn't like hearing how they were keeping up with the racing KG7's of the day.

Post by **Peter** » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:13 am

Nice photo. The Chris craft engines are really cool!

Post by **mercaholic** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:41 pm

Found a pic of an original race engine that was never put in the water.

This was one that got away from me as it was offered but I did not have the $ to take it on....

As I understand things, it may have gone to Lee Holland then ended up in the Suter collection but not sure where it resides now.

The detective work was done by an AOMCI member Bob Skinner. Word is he got a lead from a retired worker from the Algonac factory. He followed the trail to the widow of the original purchaser and clinched the deal. Also with it came a Commander 10 that never seen water either.

Post by **mercaholic** » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:04 am

Commander in action in slo-mo by my bud Steve...

Post by **mercaholic** » Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:10 pm

Another Buddy's Commander.

Once the crud from the tank was removed, it came to life....

Post by **Toby Hall** » Tue May 18, 2021 4:43 pm

Hey John - Can you tell me where this little decal wants to go?

Post by **mercaholic** » Wed May 19, 2021 11:59 am

It goes on one side of the motor where a boss extrusion exists.

I'll post of pic of one of mine.

Post by **mercaholic** » Wed May 19, 2021 12:01 pm

That's a Beaut Toby !!!

Where did you find the decals and paint?

Post by **Toby Hall** » Wed May 19, 2021 2:15 pm

Paint from Vintage Outboard Paint, the new iteration of the former Effenco. https://vintageoutboardpaint.com/

Decals from Old Outboard Decals. oldoutboarddecals@gmail.com
Neither are listed on their websites, but if you ask, they're still available!

Post by **mercaholic** » Wed May 19, 2021 9:46 pm

Toby Hall wrote:Paint from Vintage Outboard Paint, the new iteration of the former Effenco. https://vintageoutboardpaint.com/

Decals from Old Outboard Decals. oldoutboarddecals@gmail.com
Neither are listed on their websites, but if you ask, they're still available!

Your sources worked out well.

Sadly, and since Lee Holland is no longer available to supply his reprod items, I tried my own local custom mixing with limited results.

Here is where than decal belongs....and until next time Stan hosts another get-together

Post by **Toby Hall** » Fri May 21, 2021 12:43 am

Thanks! Went to visit Fingerlakes Kid today, as a matter of fact!

Post by **mercaholic** » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:38 pm

A great link courtesy of 61Merc700FGS:

https://omyboat.com/motor/chris-craft/1 ... e-holland/

It must have been one of the late Lee Hollands' last presentations. A number of interesting items were discussed, the most notable for me was his account of the actual HP that the Commander model put out being close to 22hp. From my collection of Commanders over the years and of the stories of how they were wiping up the KG7's of the day, I am not too surprised if that indeed was the rating.

Post by **mercaholic** » Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:32 pm

So I haven't had any Chris Craft motors come in for a year and now this one showed up .

It's a motor that I had worked on a while back. Owner complained it was emitting lots of steam out of the exhaust yet seemed to run ok. Here's what i found.

Seems the head gasket only allowed limited water circulation. Top cylinder and compression is good. I had originally installed a new impeller and this one still looked fine but will replace anyway.

An interesting discovery. Now to try to find a replacement head gasket.

ps: Notice the small pads in the head. Apparently Chris Craft updated the Commanders to raise compression. This one still had 120 # per cylinder. I have a service bulletin that mentions further compression increases can be sought by cutting down the head surface a smidge.

Post by **Tom Brockmeyer** » Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:55 pm

Always sad to see paint discoloration on water cooled engine cylinders! ouch...

Post by **mercaholic** » Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:49 pm

Confirmed the culprit. There was an irregular head gasket in place which limited water circulation thru the head. See comparison pic with a correct one that I borrowed.

Good news is only the head got hot so the block is still good.

The bad news is there seems to be no new head gaskets available.....

I'm presently in discussions with Doug Brooke on reproductions....

Post by **Motor Monkey** » Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:26 am

Can you please post here if reproductions do become available?

Thanks,
Mark

Post by **mercaholic** » Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:32 pm

Motor Monkey wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:26 am Can you please post here if reproductions do become available?

Thanks,
Mark

For sure. Things are moving along already.

Post by **mercaholic** » Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:17 am

mercaholic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:41 pm Found a pic of an original race engine that was never put in the water.

This was one that got away from me as it was offered but I did not have the $ to take it on.... As I understand things, it may have gone to Lee Holland then ended up in the Suter collection but not sure where it resides now.

The detective work was done by an AOMCI member Bob Skinner. Word is he got a lead from a retired worker from the Algonac factory. He followed the trail to the widow of the original purchaser and clinched the deal. Also with it came a Commander 10 that never seen water either.

Found more archival pics of the race motor

Post by **mercaholic** » Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:37 pm

mercaholic wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:17 am
mercaholic wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:41 pm Found a pic of an original race engine that was never put in the water.

This was one that got away from me as it was offered but I did not have the $ to take it on.... As I understand things, it may have gone to Lee Holland then ended up in the Suter collection but not sure where it resides now.

The detective work was done by an AOMCI member Bob Skinner. Word is he got a lead from a retired worker from the Algonac factory. He followed the trail to the widow of the original purchaser and clinched the deal. Also with it came a Commander 10 that never seen water either.
Found more archival pics of the race motor

One last pic of me and Bob Skinner doing a transaction. It was a staged photo op as it never ended up in my hands. Thanks to Chris Scratch for digging up this one from I think the late '90s. Those were the days of mustaches....

Post by **mercaholic** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:38 pm

Now available at a great price :

https://www.vintageoutboard.com/search?q=commander

Post by **mercaholic** » Sun Jan 15, 2023 7:40 pm

Came across this presentation by Lee Holland on the history of the motor's development.

About an hour long with a specific reference to their capability to almost 22hp at about the 20min point. Later in the presentation he thought the engines were capable of 9K rpm.

I recall there was also a video of the presentation but haven't found it yet.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=chris+cr ... 10YDj-dpwc

Post by **mercaholic** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:23 pm

Finished our prototypes and will start producing impellers.

PM if interested in an order.

Post by **Motor Monkey** » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:47 pm

mercaholic wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:38 pm Now available at a great price :

https://www.vintageoutboard.com/search?q=commander

Just ordered mine. Thanks for the heads up John. Your posting on the C.C. FB site reminded me.

- Mark

Post by **mercaholic** » Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:40 pm

Hi Mark.

Thanks, you'll be impressed with the quality of it.

I ordered half a dozen for my three motors. We're going to coordinate on the Challenger next for head gaskets and impellers.

John

Post by **Motor Monkey** » Fri Mar 31, 2023 2:06 am

Hi John -

Received it today and it does look good!

Do you have any more of the impellers?

Mark

Post by **mercaholic** » Sat Apr 08, 2023 12:49 pm

PM sent