Chris Craft Commander

post topics not related to mercury's here
Post Reply
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Picked up this little worn out treasure.... icon_thumbup.gif

I heard Lee Holland had a medical issue so seeking another source of parts.

Anyone got anything available?
Attachments
cc2.jpg
cc1.jpg
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
Tom Brockmeyer
Posts: 5317
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:14 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by Tom Brockmeyer »

Ignition parts are pretty much same as Merc...

Carb is a Carter, same as Merc...

Bearings & seals are from local supply store (like Mercs...)

Sure looks like a Merc.... Hey! ECK should SUE those guys for copying the KG-7 (Nevermind... I read now that's exactly what happened)

John, exactly what parts are you after on that Commander (don't say "lower cowling")

Tom
Lake Lanier, 30miles North of Atlanta, GA
Old Mercury outboard fan... Especially the fast ones!
Mercury/MerCruiser, Evinrude/Johnson & VolvoPenta Technician (After my suit & tie wearing career was done!)
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Lots of similarity to the KG7.

A little known fact is that the impeller from a KG7 will fit into the Commander... :arrow:

Right now, three items come to mind. One is decals, the other items are a rubber grip and carb levers.
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Found the parts I needed... [wrench.gif]
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

BONUS.... :arrow:

Decent ignition Components
Attachments
ccign.jpg
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Tom Brockmeyer wrote:Carb is a Carter, same as Merc...
Actually, it was a Tillotson carb on those. Looks very similar to the Carter design however.
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

In my quest to see how far CC went to mimic Kiekhaefer KG7 model, I have been slowly tearing into this motor.

More to come as I proceed.
Attachments
I was not satisfied that the water passages weren't obstructed so added a new gasket to the water jacket cover and installed a top of block oullet
I was not satisfied that the water passages weren't obstructed so added a new gasket to the water jacket cover and installed a top of block oullet
Similar ?
Similar ?
similar ?
similar ?
Lower unit has some simliar design aspects
Lower unit has some simliar design aspects
Splines configuration are  identical which implies that a Rat Motor could be made to mount on a Commander Tower...hmmm
Splines configuration are identical which implies that a Rat Motor could be made to mount on a Commander Tower...hmmm
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

More comparisons follow
Attachments
Tillotson carb, similar to Carter.
Tillotson carb, similar to Carter.
Thumb screw similarity.
Thumb screw similarity.
Same shaft diameter but not splined like the KG7
Same shaft diameter but not splined like the KG7
A KG7 impeller will substitute for the NLA version.
A KG7 impeller will substitute for the NLA version.
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Done and tank tested.
Attachments
ccc13.jpg
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
Fingerlakeskid
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:13 am
11
Location: Horseheads NY

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by Fingerlakeskid »

Looks great John!
Stan Augustine

Mark 30 tiller, (2)Mark 55, Mark 58A (2)Merc 200 FGS, Merc 450, Merc 500. 1950 CZT Penn Yan Swift, 1957 Alumacraft FD, 1985 Larson Senza w/Merc 1150,
Peter
Posts: 550
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:47 pm
10
Location: Bedford, New Hampshire & Lake Winnipesaukee
Contact:

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by Peter »

She’s a beauty
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Took the Commander out for a run yesterday and while it started and idled ok, it just did not top out like I seem to recall these things do so I removed the carb to find this had happened.

I must have missed it when I originally took off the carb to clean it.

On the plus side, after 2 hrs of running and fiddling, the original coils didn't break down.

I now have a lead on another Commander to persue tomorrow. If I score it, I will continue this thread
Attachments
wetmeetcc2.jpg
wetmeetcc1.jpg
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

The new project.

A little rougher than my previous projects with a few dents and bruises. Apparently it was found lying on it's side in a guy's back yard area near it's birthplace in Algonac, Michigan.

Compression is only 75 psi on No.1 and 95 on No.2 jug so hoping just stuck rigs that will free up after I tank test it altho I'll first pull off the exhaust cover to see if any scoring.

At least this one came with the hard to find factory shrouds and most of the other parts seem intact.
Attachments
ccbruce2.jpg
ccbruce1.jpg
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Back from the soda-blaster.

Luckily, it came cheap as the factory paint or what was left of it, came off easy.... icon_thumbup.gif
Attachments
cc14.jpg
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Finally got it on the water.

I must admit that these models are strong runners so to me it's no wonder that Carl didn't like hearing how they were keeping up with the racing KG7's of the day.
Attachments
ccc14.jpg
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
Peter
Posts: 550
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:47 pm
10
Location: Bedford, New Hampshire & Lake Winnipesaukee
Contact:

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by Peter »

Nice photo. The Chris craft engines are really cool!
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Found a pic of an original race engine that was never put in the water.

This was one that got away from me as it was offered but I did not have the $ to take it on.... icon_crazy.gif As I understand things, it may have gone to Lee Holland then ended up in the Suter collection but not sure where it resides now.

The detective work was done by an AOMCI member Bob Skinner. Word is he got a lead from a retired worker from the Algonac factory. He followed the trail to the widow of the original purchaser and clinched the deal. Also with it came a Commander 10 that never seen water either.
Attachments
ccraftracer.jpg
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Commander in action in slo-mo by my bud Steve... :arrow:

CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Another Buddy's Commander.

Once the crud from the tank was removed, it came to life.... [wrench.gif]
Attachments
ccc15.jpeg
ccc15.jpeg (32.93 KiB) Viewed 3918 times
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
Toby Hall
Posts: 1447
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:13 am
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by Toby Hall »

Hey John - Can you tell me where this little decal wants to go? [canada.gif] [helpsos.gif]
IMG_0117.jpeg
IMG_0119.jpeg
The stuff you can't see - That's what's important.
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

It goes on one side of the motor where a boss extrusion exists.

I'll post of pic of one of mine.
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

That's a Beaut Toby !!!

Where did you find the decals and paint?
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
Toby Hall
Posts: 1447
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:13 am
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by Toby Hall »

Paint from Vintage Outboard Paint, the new iteration of the former Effenco. https://vintageoutboardpaint.com/

Decals from Old Outboard Decals. oldoutboarddecals@gmail.com
Neither are listed on their websites, but if you ask, they're still available! [drinkingcheers.gif]
The stuff you can't see - That's what's important.
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Toby Hall wrote:Paint from Vintage Outboard Paint, the new iteration of the former Effenco.  https://vintageoutboardpaint.com/

Decals from Old Outboard Decals.     oldoutboarddecals@gmail.com
Neither are listed on their websites, but if you ask, they're still available!   [drinkingcheers.gif]
Your sources worked out well.

Sadly, and since Lee Holland is no longer available to supply his reprod items, I tried my own local custom mixing with limited results.

Here is where than decal belongs....and until next time Stan hosts another get-together [drinkingcheers.gif] [canada.gif] [usa.gif]
Attachments
cccdecal.jpeg
cccdecal.jpeg (27.89 KiB) Viewed 3176 times
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
Toby Hall
Posts: 1447
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:13 am
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by Toby Hall »

Thanks! Went to visit Fingerlakes Kid today, as a matter of fact! 8-)
The stuff you can't see - That's what's important.
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

A great link courtesy of 61Merc700FGS:

https://omyboat.com/motor/chris-craft/1 ... e-holland/

It must have been one of the late Lee Hollands' last presentations. A number of interesting items were discussed, the most notable for me was his account of the actual HP that the Commander model put out being close to 22hp. From my collection of Commanders over the years and of the stories of how they were wiping up the KG7's of the day, I am not too surprised if that indeed was the rating.
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

So I haven't had any Chris Craft motors come in for a year and now this one showed up .

It's a motor that I had worked on a while back. Owner complained it was emitting lots of steam out of the exhaust yet seemed to run ok. Here's what i found.

Seems the head gasket only allowed limited water circulation. Top cylinder and compression is good. I had originally installed a new impeller and this one still looked fine but will replace anyway.

An interesting discovery. Now to try to find a replacement head gasket.

ps: Notice the small pads in the head. Apparently Chris Craft updated the Commanders to raise compression. This one still had 120 # per cylinder. I have a service bulletin that mentions further compression increases can be sought by cutting down the head surface a smidge.
Attachments
commanderhead.3.jpeg
commanderhead.3.jpeg (39.84 KiB) Viewed 1242 times
commanderhead.2.jpeg
commanderhead.2.jpeg (40.29 KiB) Viewed 1242 times
commanderhead.1.jpeg
commanderhead.1.jpeg (38.3 KiB) Viewed 1242 times
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
Tom Brockmeyer
Posts: 5317
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:14 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by Tom Brockmeyer »

Always sad to see paint discoloration on water cooled engine cylinders! ouch...
Lake Lanier, 30miles North of Atlanta, GA
Old Mercury outboard fan... Especially the fast ones!
Mercury/MerCruiser, Evinrude/Johnson & VolvoPenta Technician (After my suit & tie wearing career was done!)
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Confirmed the culprit. There was an irregular head gasket in place which limited water circulation thru the head. See comparison pic with a correct one that I borrowed.

Good news is only the head got hot so the block is still good.

The bad news is there seems to be no new head gaskets available..... :?:

I'm presently in discussions with Doug Brooke on reproductions.... :arrow:
Attachments
GasketComparison.jpeg
GasketComparison.jpeg (38.31 KiB) Viewed 1181 times
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
Motor Monkey
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:47 pm
9
Location: Upstate, N.Y.

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by Motor Monkey »

Can you please post here if reproductions do become available?

Thanks,
Mark
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Motor Monkey wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:26 am Can you please post here if reproductions do become available?

Thanks,
Mark
For sure. Things are moving along already.
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

mercaholic wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:41 pm Found a pic of an original race engine that was never put in the water.

This was one that got away from me as it was offered but I did not have the $ to take it on.... icon_crazy.gif As I understand things, it may have gone to Lee Holland then ended up in the Suter collection but not sure where it resides now.

The detective work was done by an AOMCI member Bob Skinner. Word is he got a lead from a retired worker from the Algonac factory. He followed the trail to the widow of the original purchaser and clinched the deal. Also with it came a Commander 10 that never seen water either.
Found more archival pics of the race motor
Attachments
comracer.2.jpeg
comracer.2.jpeg (30.12 KiB) Viewed 959 times
comracer.1.jpeg
comracer.1.jpeg (29.61 KiB) Viewed 959 times
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

mercaholic wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:17 am
mercaholic wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:41 pm Found a pic of an original race engine that was never put in the water.

This was one that got away from me as it was offered but I did not have the $ to take it on.... icon_crazy.gif As I understand things, it may have gone to Lee Holland then ended up in the Suter collection but not sure where it resides now.

The detective work was done by an AOMCI member Bob Skinner. Word is he got a lead from a retired worker from the Algonac factory. He followed the trail to the widow of the original purchaser and clinched the deal. Also with it came a Commander 10 that never seen water either.
Found more archival pics of the race motor
One last pic of me and Bob Skinner doing a transaction. It was a staged photo op as it never ended up in my hands. Thanks to Chris Scratch for digging up this one from I think the late '90s. Those were the days of mustaches.... :arrow:
Attachments
ccc.4.jpg
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Head Gaskets now Available

Post by mercaholic »

CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
mercaholic
Posts: 2602
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm
12

Re: Chris Craft Commander

Post by mercaholic »

Came across this presentation by Lee Holland on the history of the motor's development.

About an hour long with a specific reference to their capability to almost 22hp at about the 20min point. Later in the presentation he thought the engines were capable of 9K rpm.

I recall there was also a video of the presentation but haven't found it yet.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=chris+cr ... 10YDj-dpwc
CANADA
KD4, Mk5, Mk6, Mk15, Mk20, Mk25, Mk28, Mk30, KE7, KF7, KG7, KG4, KH7, Merc 200, Merc 250, Merc 300, Merc 500, KG4Q, KG4H, KG7Q, KG7H, Mk20H
Post Reply