8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

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ADDvanced
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8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

Hey Guys(& gals),

I just joined this site a few minutes ago, and I'm going to post some photos of my project, along with some videos of my build so far.

About me:

My dad raced hydroplanes when he was young, & in the 80s and 90s when I was a kid, I grew up traveling to tunnel hull races all over the country with my dad; he wasn't still racing but knew so many people who still did, that we would just help in the pits for different teams. When I was a teenager we restored an old mercury hurricane/lightning together, it was his old race engine with QS lower unit. We had new rings, bearings, etc, all redone, repainted the gas tank, and then it sat for 20+ years because I never found a good deal on a boat for it. That all changed about a month ago, when I picked up this 8' 3 point hydroplane based on a sea flea; here's a video about it:



Here is a video where I do the majority of the restoration to the hull; this is my first wooden boat so I was learning a lot, stripped it, and started the epoxy process:



I ran back to my dad's house a few weeks back and grabbed my outboard, and brought it back to my place. This is where I am going to need your help! Here's my third video, showing some continuation on the hull restoration, and the introduction to my little hurricane.
[media]
[/media]

I joined the forums over at hydroracer.net a while back, and they turned me on to Ron Thomas as an expert in racing lower units. It turns out I live about 20 minutes away from Ron, so I dropped the lower unit off a few days ago, super cool guy!

Anyway.... now you're caught up to where I am today. I'm finishing up the hull restoration, and then I need to focus on the engine.

Random questions:

1. Can I use modern 2 stroke oil? I have a bunch for my chainsaws/snowmobiles/etc?
2. Where can I get the throttle cable adaptor, to hook it up to my quincy deadmans throttle?
3. Is there a how to/easy way to make a safety lanyard? I'd prefer not to get thrown off and have my boat turn into an unguided missile.
4. When I reinstall the lower unit, is there supposed to be a gasket anywhere?

Any advice/pointers would be helpful.

Cheers!
Tom Brockmeyer
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Tom Brockmeyer »

Welcome to the site... I'm "25XS" on the other site you're posting on and I am a moderator here. I'm wondering if you saw evidence of a center turn fin on the bottom of your boat? Look inside, too, on the center keel or any additional frame blocks with four empty holes in a rectangular pattern where a turn fin would have been attached.

Since you've paid to join Johns Old Mercury Site (JOMS from now on...) I will try to only address your project here and not on the other site(s) mostly to save my time.

3. The deadman throttle will kill the engine if you release your grip. Look in the carb and MAKE CERTAIN you have a full 360 circle butterfly (no holes or notches) and it should be good enough for you to run without a stop switch lanyard wired to the ignition points. For real safety, the points should be wired to stop the engine when you pull a lanyard and there's info available here by using the SEARCH box feature at the top/right of every page.

4. No gasket between the gearcase and exhaust housing. You do want to use air to blow off the top of the gearcase after use (thru the inspection cover used to access the top mounting stud/nut). Don't let water sit atop the driveshaft seal after use.
Lake Lanier, 30miles North of Atlanta, GA
Old Mercury outboard fan... Especially the fast ones!
Mercury/MerCruiser, Evinrude/Johnson & VolvoPenta Technician (After my suit & tie wearing career was done!)
Vixbit
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Vixbit »

Recoil has to be on motor to function (will lock up if you pull it when off the motor). Pawls will engage nut on top of crankshaft and motor will turn over. Recoil will always lock up unless fastened to powerhead.
Peter
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Peter »

Great story! Welcome to the group.
john bennig
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by john bennig »

The oil you need is labeled TC-W3. Do not use oil intended for air cooled motors. Hope to see you and your boat at Tomahawk this year.
slowstartfast
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by slowstartfast »

#2. Throttle cable to top of carb adaptor Portage Bay Systems part #158
http://www.portagebaysystems.com/throttles.html
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

Can I ask a really dumb question? Can I run this thing without a lower unit/water pump just to see if it'll fire?

Ron is still blessing my lower unit, and I kind of want to just throw some gas/oil in it, and turn it over to see if it pops. If not might need to rebuild the carb (again, lol).

Or I can wait. But that requires patience.

To be clear... not run for more than a couple seconds.
Michael
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Michael »

ADDvanced wrote:Can I ask a really dumb question?  Can I run this thing without a lower unit/water pump just to see if it'll fire?  

Ron is still blessing my lower unit, and I kind of want to just throw some gas/oil in it, and turn it over to see if it pops.   If not might need to rebuild the carb (again, lol).

Or I can wait.  But that requires patience.

To be clear... not run for more than a couple seconds.
yes you can, it's the rubber blades of the water pump impeller we are very concerned about with NO water...you can tear off blades and pump them into the powerhead which can cause cooling issues....

I have a BRAND NEW overheating Honda 30 on the stand now with this problem...the neighbor just bought it and screwed it up first test fire in the driveway :shock: poor guy it's not even broke in yet
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

Thanks for the info.... be sure to watch the last 30 seconds of this video :P

Finished the underside of my hull, and tried starting the KG4!

Ron Thomas disassembled my gearcase when I dropped it off; my waterpump was in amazing condition, and he said it was more pliable than his reproductions, so I should use it.  The conical nut at the rear of the case was worn, so he's going to be using a new one when it's reassembled.   The prop shaft itself looked really good, and did not show much wear, so that will be reused.   The biggest issue was the gearcase itself had a 2" long crack coming from the drain plug going towards the rear edge.   It stopped before the threads started; he was saying once the cracks get into the threads they're impossible to repair; even if you weld/remachine the threads, the forces on them when you tighten them will generally snap the welds.  He's getting a guy up in FDL to drill out the end of the crack, reweld it, and make it beautiful again :)

I actually talked with Ron about my hull, and he shared some tips and tricks, some of which were said by others in this thread earlier.   We discussed a sharp rear edge, along with the curve of the bottom of the boat (slight hooking up is ok, hooking down = pushes the bow down, slow), how to block it, textures/sanding/polished hulls and which one was faster, and the addition of airdams to my hull.   I'm aware airdams will increase the performance, but I am hoping to run this thing as shown in the video, dial in the engine, and establish a baseline, then do the mods and see how it improves my speed.

Anyway, video:



Thank you for everyone's help!   I have ordered a throttle adaptor from portagebay and a few other things to get this thing rigged.  Next step is rebuilding the steering support and rigging it.   I've also ordered a new float/carb rebuild kit, because although my engine does fire, it was leaking a fair amount of fuel from the carb, which seems like a stuck float.   
Tom Brockmeyer
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Tom Brockmeyer »

So just a tip here: When you're roping over the KG-4 give a snap of your wrist to engage the starter pawls and THEN pull the rope. Don't do it in one fast motion or you can damage the starter mechanism. Pretty much goes for every single rewind starter on every single small outboard on Earth. (exceptions are engines with a 'one-way' bearing on a smooth cylinder crankshaft end like a Mercury/Force 9.9/15hp.)
Lake Lanier, 30miles North of Atlanta, GA
Old Mercury outboard fan... Especially the fast ones!
Mercury/MerCruiser, Evinrude/Johnson & VolvoPenta Technician (After my suit & tie wearing career was done!)
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

So I need to finish this before the snow flies. Pulled the carb, have a new rebuild kit a foam float, any tricks/tips? Looks extremely straight forward but just thought I'd ask before I throw it together.
Tom Brockmeyer
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Tom Brockmeyer »

In the carburetor department, the tiniest orifices and passageways need to be clean, CLEAN! The float is located with a clip on the needle so there's no adjusting needed. You may need to drill out the center of the new float so it slides on the pin. Clean your tank and fuel line and be sure to let it flush out (full flow into a catch can) prior to reconnecting to the carb. Any debris in the line after the filter can cancel all your work if it gets into the clean carb.

Someone here might pitch in with initial needle opening adjustments for you. DO NOT seat the needles with any force or you'll damage the seats and have difficulty making running adjustments.
Lake Lanier, 30miles North of Atlanta, GA
Old Mercury outboard fan... Especially the fast ones!
Mercury/MerCruiser, Evinrude/Johnson & VolvoPenta Technician (After my suit & tie wearing career was done!)
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

Does anyone have a close up photo of the carb/throttle cable mount of one of these engines? I am running into all sorts of interference... when you run a remote throttle, do you remove the throttle lever on the front of the outboard? If so, how do you even kill the motor?
dave bernard
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by dave bernard »

Call me 1 914 310 7086. Dave.
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

Well, I have terrible news. The "158" remote throttle adaptor I ordered from portage bay systems was all sorts of f*cked. Nothing fit. Even the simple cable mount required me to radius the rear corner, or the hole was too low. The part that goes on the carb itself didn't fit AT ALL. The center to center of the two holes was off, so I wound up using a countersink bit to give the main post some 'slop' so it would bolt on. Also, it would interfere with the choke linkage, so I had to clearance that, and then my throttle/advance lever was hitting the top of it, so I pulled upwards on the throttle/advance lever to try to slightly bend it, and wound up breaking the metal that the lever attaches to. So I pulled the flywheel and tried to JB weld it, with no success. So I guess I'm looking for a new plate that the coils/points mount to. Fun. Portage bay systems makes trash. I am so pissed.
Pondrocket
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Pondrocket »

Carb setup should have a full butterfly to shut down engine.
Mark30e,57'Mark55e,3-Mark58s's,Mark78ael,twin 64'Merc 650's Classic Mercs Keep em Alive! https://waterhogsworks.com/
Glen L Zip w/Tee Nee, 63' 14-C PowerCat
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

Makes sense. I have a kill switch I was going to wire into the engine anyway, so now that the flywheel is off it's time to pitter patter. Speaking of which, my coils don't match, one is dark and black, the other has clear plastic which has cracked apart exposing some of the internals. Where do I get replacements? I checked oldmercs but what they were showing did not look like what I have at all. Is it typical to replace the condensors as well?
Cottage Racer
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Cottage Racer »

Some pictures of the mag plate and the parts you got would help.
john bennig
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by john bennig »

I have the plate for mounting the coils. P.M. me
Tom Brockmeyer
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Tom Brockmeyer »

These old Mercs have all sorts of interchangable parts, so maybe start by identifying exactly which carburetor you have on the engine. It's stamped into the flat surface of the float bowl facing straight forward. A picture of what you set up would be nice.

Portage Bay has long been a supplier of NLA parts to the outboard racing hobby. While no one here wants to hear about poor quality or misfitting parts, verbal abuse is uncalled for and should end right now.
Lake Lanier, 30miles North of Atlanta, GA
Old Mercury outboard fan... Especially the fast ones!
Mercury/MerCruiser, Evinrude/Johnson & VolvoPenta Technician (After my suit & tie wearing career was done!)
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

I don't think calling them out on poorly made parts is verbal abuse. Nothing FIT. The center to center of the holes was off. Things were too big. Dimensions were off everywhere. Video showing this whole fiasco will be posted this weekend. My carb is a tillotson AJ19, I show it in this video:

ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

Here's a pic of my broken coil plate, and disintegrating coils:

Image
Tom Brockmeyer
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Tom Brockmeyer »

ADDvanced wrote:I don't think calling them out on poorly made parts is verbal abuse.   Nothing FIT.   The center to center of the holes was off.  Things were too big.  Dimensions were off everywhere.  
Well the parts are designed to fit an AJ-32 carburetor like all the KG-7 and KG-4 engines were raced with... What are you running?
Lake Lanier, 30miles North of Atlanta, GA
Old Mercury outboard fan... Especially the fast ones!
Mercury/MerCruiser, Evinrude/Johnson & VolvoPenta Technician (After my suit & tie wearing career was done!)
Michael
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Michael »

Tom Brockmeyer wrote:
ADDvanced wrote:I don't think calling them out on poorly made parts is verbal abuse.   Nothing FIT.   The center to center of the holes was off.  Things were too big.  Dimensions were off everywhere.  
Well the parts are designed to fit an AJ-32 carburetor like all the KG-7 and KG-4 engines were raced with...  What are you running?
he is running an AJ 19 Tom
krazy karl
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by krazy karl »

Those parts are not made for the carb you have. I have bought and used Portage Bay racing products which are excellent quality. The owner, Steve Greaves, is a great guy who is passionate about servicing the racing community. He races C Service boats and outboards himself and I believe he holds some speed trials records.
kk
55H, 1958 HydroSwift (looks like a 1957 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser with twin MK 55's, 2 KD4's, KE7, Seagull, QD13, KG7Q and 1978 Chrysler TriHull with 115 HP Chrysler . Quincy, Calif
Cottage Racer
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Cottage Racer »

Still no pictures of the parts you have. Looks like a KE7 powerhead, what is the serial number. [violin.gif]
Cottage Racer
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Cottage Racer »

Chuckw has a wanted ad for an aj19a. Maybe you can work trade for an aj32a.
Michael
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Michael »

Cottage Racer wrote:Chuckw has a wanted ad for an aj19a. Maybe you can work trade for an aj32a.
:arrow:
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

krazy karl wrote:Those parts are not made for the carb you have. I have bought and used Portage Bay racing products which are excellent quality. The owner, Steve Greaves, is a great guy who is passionate about servicing the racing community. He races C Service boats and outboards himself and I believe he holds some speed trials records.
kk
I talked to Steve and told him exactly what I had.
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

Cottage Racer wrote:Still no pictures of the parts you have. Looks like a KE7 powerhead, what is the serial number. [violin.gif]
The tank isn't original to the engine, so the information is basically useless.
Stobl
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Stobl »

ADDvanced wrote:The tank isn't original to the engine,  so the information is basically useless.

The serial number on the power head is the most important piece of information, as it seems what you thought you had isn't what you actually have. The issue isn't the parts you bought being low quality, the issue is that they weren't designed for whatever you have. These are almost 70 year old engines, and things are almost guaranteed to have been changed or swapped out in that time.
Blake- Southern MD
Cottage Racer
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Cottage Racer »

I guess I wasn't clear, you need the serial number on the engine block. It should be where the block meets the crankcase on the intake side. But it my have been ground off and the tank changed so it could be raced as a 15 cu in motor.
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

There is no serial number on the block. Where it should be, it is blank.

Anyway, onwards and upwards:

It doesn't look like posting videos works anymore, so just click these links I guess.

Michael
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Michael »

ADDvanced wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:15 pm There is no serial number on the block. Where it should be, it is blank.

Anyway, onwards and upwards:

It doesn't look like posting videos works anymore, so just click these links I guess.
use the Media button when posting videos....new board doesnt use the youtube VIDEO button any more
Michael
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Michael »

question..... ...at the end of your last video you have it all rigged and in the water but you didnt show it running....what happened
couldnt get on plane?
ADDvanced
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by ADDvanced »

On water testing video is coming. Trying to document the project in order.
Cottage Racer
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Re: 8' 3 Point Hydroplane Sea Flea Project, Video Build

Post by Cottage Racer »

No serial number, and I noticed it looks like the front tank bracket has been modified. Probably a Wizard... WG7 20 cu in block. The easiest way to find out is to take off an intake cover and measure the bore.
Be careful that a lot of motor for that little boat if that's what it is.
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