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Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:16 am
by mtechmarine
Barn find, price was right so it followed me home. This one will be a real challenge - even tho I have 2] much nicer candidates, i'll see what I can do with it.

Looks like this has been a mud dauber refuge for 40 years, just about every nook and cranny was filled in. Here's some "before" pics!!

Crusty as it is, the pump still works, the swivel bracket swivels and the clampscrews are free.

SAM_2582.JPG
Nasty!


SAM_2583.JPG
Ugly!


SAM_2585.JPG
Cobwebby!


SAM_2587.JPG
Flywheel by Death!


Getting into it a bit Sunday everything came apart easily. down to the basic powerhead, now soaking to remove pistons. The coil has deteriorated and was slowly dripping down into the cap.

I have a new "ACE" monster blast cabinet, but so far no compressor bargains on Craigslist. So looking into new compressor to soda this mess and clean it up.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:18 pm
by mercaholic
Looks like it kept company to Davey Jones Locker.

Lots of good parts on it though.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:35 pm
by outboard315
Heck I would go for it. But that is just me and I don't have one of those.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:47 pm
by Michael
outboard315 wrote:Heck I would go for it. But that is just me and I don't have one of those.


me too,
if its too greasy for you I sure will massage her back into order :mrgreen:

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:30 am
by Toby Hall
It's got the newer version fuel connector.  8-)

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:37 am
by squirrelboydeluxe
Tell us what kind of compressor you get.
I'm looking too

GB

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:30 am
by mtechmarine
I was able to score an ACE model 2 blast cabinet, dust collector and a portable "pot" setup NEVER USED from an estate sale. WOW, this babys' big enough (42 X 24) to toss a complete mid section in and blast away.

So far KG's on hold while we replace the valve seals on grandson Havens Ford Ranger V6 truck. He's doing this job, I'm not a truck repairman. In fact I just shelled out 2600 Lincolns for 2 new heads + misc other busted stuff for my 2002 Dodge 1500 360. It was worth it to me not to try hefting 60LB heads off and on the beast.

Still no big compressor, may have to break down and buy a new one.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:49 pm
by Bob
almost any Mercury is worth keeping out of the land fill..

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:26 pm
by LarryR
Agree.  The nastier they are, the more fun you'll have.   :lol:  :lol:
Mud-dauber remains are much less corrisive than those of moles or chipmunks.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:34 pm
by mtechmarine
Posting from Richmond VA where I, as the designated driver am on a mercy mission delivering bro-in- law to V A hospital for a massive hernia operation.

Finally got the truck out of my hair. After 1st finding the ground strap from the stbd head trapped between the head and block after he had the darn thing almost all assembled (required back to square 1 dis assembly) Then the usual fiddling around to determine TDC and proper distributor position -  in order to move it you have to take the intake plenum off. It was a comedy of errors, compounded by attitude problems. Sad part of it is I don't think it taught him a darn thing.

In the interim I disassembled the KG-9's magneto and cleaned out the old coil whos insulation had deteriorated to a compound similar to very viscous silly putty. The ball bearings are the separable type. They were both shimmed into the housings with paper shims both peripherally and end wise. I have never seen anything like this. Hope Motion Industries can fix me up with correct outer diameter bearings.

The powerhead is still in 1 piece, still stuck, soaking. All 4 plugs were rust free and clean - I believe it will come right apart when I get to it.

I have acquired a decent used 5HP compressor (forget brand, but it is a good one) now and will assemble the entire blast facility this coming weekend.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:43 pm
by Tom Brockmeyer
mtechmarine wrote:I just shelled out 2600 Lincolns for 2 new heads + misc other busted stuff for my 2002 Dodge 1500 360. It was worth it to me not to try hefting 60LB heads off and on the beast.


Bill, not to change the subject, but I certainly HOPE they upgraded the intake plenum belly pan gasket on your truck prior to reassembly!??  Ask them, or contact me to discuss it, but it's the death of most of those V6/V8 Dodge truck engines.  I have 290,000 on my 1999 Ram Sport now, (you saw it when you were at Lake Lanier) and religiously inspect for a damaged plenum gasket.
Tom Brockmeyer

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:30 pm
by mtechmarine
Thanks Tom, yes, they even replaced the pan. I was impressed with their service, they did a lot of little things without charge and even washed and vacuumed the truck.

I have finally rid my work area of the Ford project (IT RAN!) and have made a little more progress on the KG-9.

Here is a pic of the magneto, disassembled. It had the original separable bearings. The coil; had deteriorated into a tar-like mass. Took a bit of prying to get it out of the housing and the residue had to be scraped out. I hope I can find replacements for these 2 separable bearings -  when I removed them I found they were both shimmed into the housing with paper washers underneath and paper shims around the periphery. So I hope I can come up with some that will fit the housings at Motion Industries.

SAM_2595.JPG


All the fasteners have been  easily removed from this motor so far. I have the powerhead off and on the bench, pulled the lower end cap last nite. This evening I'll again try to remove stubborn crank gear and the top cap so I can split it and see why it is frozen. So far I have found no internal corrosion.

SAM_2592.JPG

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:07 pm
by Jeff Register
Had a melted coil on my KG7. Used good paint remover to get the goo out, then in the freezer to chip the little chunks away.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:04 pm
by mtechmarine
Making progress, got the sandblast system set up and used it to good advantage to clean up most of this mess. Still not wired in this photo, I used a dryer pigtail and socket in the 4X4 box on the side of the breaker cabinet. 50AMPS so I can use it for a (future) welder.

SAM_2601.JPG
READY TO BLAST


Cool, I was able to put the entire mid section in here and cleaned it right up. The block is at the machine shop boring +.010 for 4 new pistons  :mrgreen:

SAM_2603.JPG


SAM_2602.JPG


PISTONS4.jpg
MERC ON THE LEFT, NEW ON THE RIGHT

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:59 pm
by daveswaves
Sand blaster works good.  I used to sandblast all of my Merc inline exhaust covers and deflectors and plates.  Often showed up a weak spot or hole, definitely easier to work with.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:49 pm
by Fastjeff
What medium are you using?

Jeff

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:20 pm
by mtechmarine
Glass beads. I have some walnut shells as well but haven't tried them. The little cabinet I had from harbor Freight would not pull shells thru.

i have to put a water filter in the line as well, so as to keep the medium from caking up. This cabinet has a spring loaded door in the bottom for fast change of medium. Very cool.  icon_thumbup.gif

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:28 pm
by mtechmarine
1 Motion industries. After 3 trips to Pensacola I finally got them on the same sheet of music and have now gathered all the bearings and seals for the motor. The picture follows, one exception, the B-1012 for the mag tower should be a GB1012. I centerless ground it down myself to fit. Avoiding another 25 mile drive. All these cost me more than the motor by a long shot. Now that I know the numbers (you) can shop on line and save some. Not a lot by my research depending on source and shipping. I'll list this group as a white paper.

BRGS_SEALS.jpg


As regards the magneto -  The paper shims I mentioned earlier actually belong there according to the Merc parts list. The shaft seals were cork, so I'm on the hunt for some cork sheet to cut top and lower out. As the bearings are unshielded ans separable they will need some sort of isolation from the rest of the mag so as not to spread grease all over inside.

The painting of the cowlings came out nicely, did a "Christmas" blend of green and red.  :D

GREEN_PAINT.jpg

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:35 pm
by Michael
mtechmarine wrote:1 Motion industries. After 3 trips to Pensacola I finally got them on the same sheet of music and have now gathered all the bearings and seals for the motor. The picture follows, one exception, the B-1012 for the mag tower should be a GB1012. I centerless ground it down myself to fit. Avoiding another 25 mile drive. All these cost me more than the motor by a long shot. Now that I know the numbers (you) can shop on line and save some. Not a lot by my research depending on source and shipping. I'll list this group as a white paper.

BRGS_SEALS.jpg


As regards the magneto -  The paper shims I mentioned earlier actually belong there according to the Merc parts list. The shaft seals were cork, so I'm on the hunt for some cork sheet to cut top and lower out. As the bearings are unshielded ans separable they will need some sort of isolation from the rest of the mag so as not to spread grease all over inside.

The painting of the cowlings came out nicely, did a "Christmas" blend of green and red.  :D

GREEN_PAINT.jpg


paint looks Nice

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:15 pm
by mtechmarine
The individual who made these pistons evidently had a KE-7 piston as a pattern, the inside boss for the wrist pin was not machined for top guided rods. So I had to take them to a friends place and we put them on the Bridgeport and cut the pistons for top guided rod and washers. I just got them back and will be starting assembly of the powerhead this weekend. You can see where material was removed to widen for the rod and washers.

SAM_2753.JPG

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:23 pm
by Fastjeff
Didn't that lighten them, so they'll be out of balance?

Jeff

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:23 am
by mtechmarine
Reciprocating weight, not relevant to the rotational balance of the motor, as long as they are basically the same.  :geek:

Of course lighter is faster, but with these I am entering untested territory so running in a relatively benign environment rather than a race motor.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:35 am
by dave bernard
the weight of the washers somewhat offsets the removal of piston material

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:57 am
by Fastjeff
"Verrrry innnnn-teresting!"  (Artie Johnson)  You gotta be old to know where that came from!

I've been told by a very 'reliable' source that one can make a kick-butt 3 cylinder, heads come off Merc by "simply" removing the rods and pistons from the right bank of a Merc V-6.  Guy claims it runs nice and smooth WITHOUT any other action!  He also claimed that, when he cooked a piston during a race, he removed IT alone and finished the last heat!

"Verrrry innnnn-teresting!"  right?

Jeff

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:33 pm
by daveswaves

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:50 pm
by krazy karl
Fastjeff wrote:"Verrrry innnnn-teresting!"  (Artie Johnson)  You gotta be old to know where that came from!

I've been told by a very 'reliable' source that one can make a kick-butt 3 cylinder, heads come off Merc by "simply" removing the rods and pistons from the right bank of a Merc V-6.  Guy claims it runs nice and smooth WITHOUT any other action!  He also claimed that, when he cooked a piston during a race, he removed IT alone and finished the last heat!

"Verrrry  innnnn-teresting!

Jeff


Ed Buzzi was a classmate, his sister, Ruth, was two grades ahead. The word Wequetequock that was written on Ruth's leg in the show was the name of the place where they lived in Connecticut.
kk

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:43 pm
by Fastjeff
She was really funny!

Jeff

On the way back togehter

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:00 pm
by mtechmarine
December 22nd progress
Over the weekend interspersed with seasonal forays to the mall and football games, I managed to sort thru miscellaneous boxes and come up with 4 decent 600-4 con rods and assembled same along with the new 10 over pistons. Most of the time Sunday just cleaning bolts, nuts and misc. widgets. Hope to drop the assembly into the block after work today.

CRANKTRAIN.jpg
Top piston got a little scuffed in making a jig to cut the proper width for rod and washers.


Remarkable just how many parts there are to one of these old sand cast models. The center main is of solid steel rather than the aluminum with break fit bearing used later. The top and bottom main bearings, 2 each at top and bottom with a spacer between to keep the crankshaft straight.

NUTSANDBOLTS.jpg
Lotsa' parts


Guess engineering went thru the 4 cylinder and cleaned it up considerably in 1955 when they switched over to die cast block.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:36 pm
by daveswaves
Hmmm, wonder where the stack of Quarters go?  Great looking block, it will be happy having those nice new pistons in it. icon_thumbup.gif

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:45 pm
by dave bernard
That is for when you don't know were a part goes just flip a coin.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:15 pm
by mtechmarine
The quarters are what I had to pay +1c (26c) per needle for the crankpin. Part number 29-20046t,  Last price 63C, now NLA  icon_thumbdown.gif  so if you have any OE needles guard them carefully. Takes 156 per.

Unfortunately the crankshaft is marginal, but I've run worse for wear.the upper seal areas not critical as it just seals the lube in the upper gear case, so a little leakage here shouldn't be a worry. Interestingly enough there is a tiny brass standpipe pressed into the top of the block with a wavy passageway in the crankcase cover grooved around all the studs, venting at the bottom into the exhaust housing. Evidently the earlier models, with no vent, must have leaked at the seals/gasket.
Look closely at the upper left of the block face, just above the red loctite bottle, you can see it there.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:18 pm
by Fastjeff
I hope your wife doesn't want to make some muffins!

Jeff

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:08 am
by mtechmarine
December 23rd -

The cranktrain was easily reinstalled, thank heaven. Got the end caps out, installed the 2 lower ball bearings and seal. Went right together. Then Murphy, who has a semi-permanent seat over my bench jumped in. :roll:  

The 2 top ball bearings are marked:"FAFNIR 205K" on both the inner and outer race. So 2 new 205's?? Au contrair - they are thicker and smaller in diameter. Same part number, go figure. The correct bearings are (in MM) 25 x 52 x 9, the current number is 98205, obsolete, but the Motion Industry guys here in Pensacola found a supplier in Dallas who has some.  :D

The upper main and lower mains are both odd balls, I wonder why Karl would use such esoteric items in a production motor. Newer Mark40 up just use 2] 206's, cheap and cheerful.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:28 am
by daveswaves
Well they probably were not unique when Carl used them.   There were a lot of bearings that got miss translated when everyone went metric.  For bearings anyway I have a metric vernier (digital) that I measure the bearings with and order accordingly.  So far I have been OK doing that.  Just a thought.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:34 pm
by Fastjeff
..."bearings anyway I have a metric vernier (digital) that I measure the bearings with "

Me too, along with my metric adjustable wrench!

Jeff

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:14 am
by mtechmarine
December 28th 2014.

Many small projects combine into the larger motor. Here's the magneto, reassembled and working - lets see - parts NOT replaced: frame, rotor, point plate and end cap. icon_eh.gif  :shock:

The fuel filter uses (I think) the same element as early auto filters, AC GF-124. Nowhere can I find any dimensions on these things. A hot item to car guys, the complete assembly with glass bowl sells for 75 bucks up. I ordered a couple filter (clones) from eBay. Dunno, they may be half or twice as big.

Bellcrank and linkage were pretty sticky, disassembled, bead blasted, made 2 new stop screws for it.


SAM_2860.JPG

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:39 am
by daveswaves
Bill, I have an old fuel pump from a fat 40 evenrude that has a glass bowl filter on it.  Not sure if it is the same but I could measure the filter itself.  Farm dealerships often still carry glass fuel bowls with filters as well.  You could take your fuel bowl in and see if any of the filters fit.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:01 am
by mtechmarine
Thanks for the offer, I am familiar with the OMC pump. Came on '58 35/40 thru 1966 80HP. Work great on race motors, had one on my Anzani. Repair kit 379777 still available for them.

This motor will use the original AC mechanical pump, I found some diaphragms on line. This AC canister type filters' about 1 1/2" across.

Tore into the carburetors tonight, looks like easy clean up so far. 2 different float valves - one has a screwdriver slot like an OMC and a pointier needle. Copper lines are in good shape. :D

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:21 pm
by daveswaves
No problem, I kinda liked this old OMCpump thats why I kept it.  Tore into the carb for the 61 Mercury 150, think I found out why it stopped running  :lol:  :lol:

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:21 pm
by Fastjeff
Yuck!  Here's what the insides of a carb from a Yamaha I'm working on looked like. It seized this cylinder, twice.

Jeff

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:53 am
by mtechmarine
January 18th 2015 -

With the holidays and a week long sojourn to a convention in Orlando over as well as a cold caught at the convention its back to work on this beast. Finally got the proper bearings for the top main, a little heat on a cold day, they dropped right into place.

SAM_2864.JPG
99205 top mains, marked "FAFNIR 205K"


SAM_2866.JPG
Gel seal application


Things got tougher after that tho, this thing seems to fight me all the way. Buttoned up the crankcase cover, then sat the powerhead onto the mid section where it was closer to eye level. Noted originally no base gasket on this model, however Vintage Outboard provided one but there was no provision for sealing the water tube to the block. There's an O ring around the tube so I sealed it with some  of my last remaining tube of OMC adhesive "M".

SAM_2867.JPG
Married up


Upper carburetor throttle shaft was seized in the body, destroyed on removal. Shaft from donor carburetor remedied that one, shifted top to lower as the older shaft is longer to slip into the connection between them.

SAM_2865.JPG
Carbs B4 installation


Magneto upper ball bearing was very hard to install in the block, I really hate to beat the crap outa' something but, once committed your stuck following thru. Difficulty installing the magneto into the powerhead as well, had to use a strip of emory cloth to get it into the same bearing. Wonder if it's a "silly MM longer" (or too big/too small in this case). Finally got the darn thing installed. Jeeze, you'd think this would go a bit smoother after all these years!

Piddled around the rest of the day with installing the top gearcase cover, rebuilt the AC fuel pump, Fitted a new 15PSI gauge, fitting the covers, found that I received ty1 KF-9 exhaust cover gaskets so project is on the side again until I can get the correct gaskets. "GETTING CLOSE"!!

SAM_2870.JPG
Flywheel, death removed


SAM_2873.JPG


SAM_2878.JPG

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:37 pm
by 58woody
Great before and after photos, excellent work!

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:36 pm
by Michael
Nice!

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:37 am
by JW in Dixie
Enjoyed your step-by-step resto. Very interesting project and you're doing a great job!  icon_thumbup.gif

JW in Dixie

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:45 am
by SteveC
JW in Dixie wrote:Enjoyed your step-by-step resto. Very interesting project and you're doing a great job!  icon_thumbup.gif

JW in Dixie



What JW said,... And fast too!  This project has really come a long way in a fairly short time!!  Great work!  

Steve

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:22 am
by Fingerlakeskid
Beautiful! Glad you saved it!

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:34 pm
by BJuby
Very nice restoration.  I have never seen a fishing KG9 in person before, only one's with racing towers and lower units.  I would assume the fishing lowers are somewhat rare.  Glad you saved it.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:14 pm
by Fastjeff
You need to go to the Feb 28th AOMC show and tour Bob Grubb's fantastic OB museum. Bob has all kinds of KE/ KG-9 fishing and H models on display.

Jeff

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:23 am
by czysk
Great Job! It's hard to believe that's the same motor.

Re: Can this pile of greasy junk be saved?

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:10 am
by mtechmarine
Closing in on completion,  icon_clap.gif

Now we come to the "instrument panel". One problem is the complete mystery of no parts listing anywhere (I can find) for this assembly and /or the tiller handle. Not worried about that tiller as this motor will be run remote on a Duratech aluminum S-14 utility.

SAM_2880.JPG
Dashboard


Got decent pressure gauge(s) off the net for $4.99 each, free shipping. Doug Brook still has the correct lines available for the KF/KG models, I purchased a new line for the "lower carb to gauge".

The original aluminum clip-on fuel connector was present, but I made up a fuel connector using a 3/4" brass plug and Tohatsu (Chrysler would work too) fuel connectors. See pic.

SAM_2883.JPG
Closeup of fuel connector


Robbed one of the remaining motors I have for a gearcase assembly. Had a great time getting the darn pump cover out, only to find a new, supple impeller. Filled it with that nasty Texaco black gear lube.  :mrgreen:

SAM_2881.JPG
Gearcase on


Will install the exhaust plate Saturday and it'll be time to test fire this resurrection. icon_thumbup.gif  icon_thumbup.gif