Chinese Outboard Knock-Offs

post topics not related to mercury's here

Chinese Outboard Knock-Offs

Postby mercaholic » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:33 pm

I was perusing the Alibaba Site for some parts and noticed a line up of Evinrude titled outboard motors made in China.

Their products have a unique decal name but the overall resemblance is unbelievably similar.   They even have schematic breakdowns of the parts tagged with labels all made in China which I assume is for legal purposes.   

It reminds me of a dated pic out of Japan that I once seen for a KG7 look alike that replicated the real thing.

All seems kind of eerie as to what these guys can do.
Mississauga , ONT
Canada
mercaholic
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 1772
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm

Re: Chinese Outboard Knock-Offs

Postby Locomotion » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:23 pm

Reverse engineering a product, no matter how complicated that product, is much easier than forward engineering.
Pattern makers and machinist can duplicate most of the parts without needing any understanding of the engineering involved in the original product development.
Ray
East Tennessee Born & Raised  
KG7H Clone
Mark 58
Locomotion
 
2 years of membership2 years of membership
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:22 am
Location: East Tennessee

Re: Chinese Outboard Knock-Offs

Postby zul8tr » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:43 pm

Interesting.

In Japan in the 50's they had mercury KG4, KG7 engines and cloned them for their stadium racing and they grew into the Yamato engines.

During WWII the Russians tried to reverse engineer the Boeing B29 with their TU-4 project. They had 4 of them in their possession and they still encountered many difficulties and that took so long their somewhat successful attempt was too late to be useful. By 1949 they had 300 TU-4's that never saw combat. The jet age happened and the TU-4 was a memory like out successful B29.

Interesting story here:

http://rb-29.net/html/03relatedstories/ ... contss.htm
SW Orlando, Fla
Fast Race Boats & cars

"If all the economists were laid end to end, they'd never reach a conclusion," George Bernard Shaw
"Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead" Ben Franklin
zul8tr
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 2338
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:26 pm
Location: SW Orlando, Fl

Re: Chinese Outboard Knock-Offs

Postby mercaholic » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:24 am

mercaholic wrote:It reminds me of a dated pic out of Japan that I once seen for a KG7 look alike that replicated the real thing.

.


FOUND IT

http://www.yamatoracing.co.uk/engine-archive/4537169191
Mississauga , ONT
Canada
mercaholic
KIDS APBA SPONSOR
 
8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership8 years of membership
 
Posts: 1772
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:13 pm

Re: Chinese Outboard Knock-Offs

Postby Yellowjacket » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:54 am

Reverse engineering isn't as easy as it sounds...  As with the guy on this board who made a batch of quickie prop shafts from stainless steel found out that if he ran those shafts in a real engine they would clearly fail in short order.

The problem is that if you reverse engineer something you never learn why the original designer made things the way he did and for what reason.  So the next item you make you leave off a small detail and the thing blows up.  Secondly unless you know what materials they made the original out of and what the heat treatment was you could also end up with junk.  If you're willing to do a lot of testing and fixing the things that break it's ok, but generally you aren't learning and that means that it will take you several generations of the product to get it right.

The Chinese still can't make jet engines with good performance because they want to steal the designs and don't want to learn the how and the why behind it.  We've been asked to help them out and even thought it was a civil program we weren't about to teach them.   I looked over their designs and they didn't have a clue as to where to start.  They were doing an APU and it wasn't going to last 100 hours...  Looked nice, but when you ran basic numbers on it, it wasn't going to work.  Certain rotors were running way too fast for the temperatures and flows that they were asking them to handle.  We look at things like stage loading and the area of the stage times the speed squared vs temperature.  If you're grounded in experience you can look at a stage and in a minute or two run a number and say what the life is going to be.....  Let them spend millions of dollars and work on it for 5 more years and then they'll fail..  Works for me...  

Reverse engineering an outboard is a bit easier since the technology isn't a high level, but there's always the issue with tolerances.  If you make them loose the quality won't be there.  If you make them tight it'll cost you more to make and that's not what they're after...    Most of what I see coming out of China is built looser than I'd expect...  So the quality is pretty much junk..
Yellowjacket
 
6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership6 years of membership
 
Posts: 837
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: Chinese Outboard Knock-Offs

Postby Locomotion » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:35 pm

Locomotion wrote:Reverse engineering a product, no matter how complicated that product, is much easier than forward engineering.
Pattern makers and machinist can duplicate most of the parts without needing any understanding of the engineering involved in the original product development.




I stand corrected, I was off target with the " no matter how complicated" part.

I am sure reverse engineering a jet engine is nearly impossable, a small internal combustion engine, not so much.
Ray
East Tennessee Born & Raised  
KG7H Clone
Mark 58
Locomotion
 
2 years of membership2 years of membership
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:22 am
Location: East Tennessee

Re: Chinese Outboard Knock-Offs

Postby Locomotion » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:11 pm

Locomotion wrote:
Locomotion wrote:Reverse engineering a product, no matter how complicated that product, is much easier than forward engineering.
Pattern makers and machinist can duplicate most of the parts without needing any understanding of the engineering involved in the original product development.




I stand corrected, I was off target with the " no matter how complicated" part.

I am sure reverse engineering a jet engine is nearly impossable, a small internal combustion engine, not so much.



I would also agree the reverse engineered product probably would never reach the quality level of a well engineered product developed with experenced people with a background in the products use and evolution.
Ray
East Tennessee Born & Raised  
KG7H Clone
Mark 58
Locomotion
 
2 years of membership2 years of membership
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:22 am
Location: East Tennessee


Return to Not Mercury Related

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest