Looper Projects

Show & Tell time! Photos, comments, stories, etc

Re: Looper Projects

Postby john bennig » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:52 pm

For smaller parts, like bearing caps, I use an electric frying pan.  It has a thermostat and a cover to retain the heat.  They can be had at garage sales for $5 or less.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Fastjeff » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:07 pm

Not bad!  One can also pick up a one "burner" electric hot plate to the heating.

Jeff
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Steve77t » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:34 am

Great Idea John, and with the Thermal sticks that Stan spoke of, it is a good match. I guess I spent money for a bearing warmer to soon, but hay, it's in the shop with me and I don't have to walk far. Steve
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:05 pm

Well I have started getting the D looper back together.  It has a new home on a Bayer stick tower.  I spent some time yesterday making my own gaskets.  I couldn't believe my luck when I found a punch in our tools that was the exact size I needed.  Fuel pumps are internally and cosmetically cleaned and the horns are installed.  I started cleaning the carbs, but I want to open them up and make sure that all the internal parts and their sizes are equal between the two.  More specifically, they may have different orifices inside to allow fuel to pass.  These all came in a box a couple years ago.  None of my loopers came with carbs.  Also got basically a lifetime supply of what I will be using for all of the bearing carrier needles at the tail cones.  So I spent some time replacing all the fluid in all of our quickie gearfeet.  Also received two engines, not mine.  A restored 20H conversion which we thought would need a helicoil on a spark plug, which we determined it doesn't (score!) and a restored 30H which absolutely needs a helicoil on #2.  Trying to get my friend on the water this year.

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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Fastjeff » Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:27 pm

Two more photos for my Keeper File.

Jeff
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Steve77t » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:13 pm

Just a short experience note for loop exhaust cones. We had problems back in the day with two springs holding them on and in place. Engine vibration would break one or both springs, and overboard the cone went. Went to using one spring and good tie wire for the other hole and never lost another one. That is if you are going to run this on a boat. My two engines have two springs for show, but one removed and wired when they run. Steve
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby dndsam » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:23 pm

BJuby wrote: A restored 20H conversion which we thought would need a helicoil on a spark plug, which we determined it doesn't (score!) and a restored 30H which absolutely needs a helicoil on #2.


Brandon,

Make sure you helicoil both(all) spark plug holes if you plan to do one.  The reason is to ensure your heat range to the plug is the same between both(all) cylinders.  The threads on the block are aluminum while they are stainless steel with a helicoil.  Being different metals, they transfer heat at different rates.  Since you are likely to have the block apart anyway to do one, you might as well do both(all).  

I helicoil all of my rebuilds from the start.  I do not want to tear back into them after they are built because of worn out aluminum threads.  Make sure you use Heliciol spring screw in type and not the junk Keensert type. My 2 cents worth.

Your loopers coming together well.

Doug S.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Fastjeff » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:10 pm

..."Make sure you helicoil both(all) spark plug holes if you plan to do one.  The reason is to ensure your heat range to the plug is the same between both(all) cylinders."

Now, that's an interesting point.

Jeff
Words spoken in two stroke heaven: There's no fuel like an oiled fuel.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Steve77t » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:27 am

Bad Idea! heli coils in a methanol motor do just what you say, but backwards. The heat in the plug will not disapate burning a real nice 1/2 inch hole through the top of the piston. Good for me as I make pistons for these things, bad for owner. Yamato done this on their Pro motors and when you got close to the lean side,well... lets just say you were not a happy camper. Steel to aluminum ok,Steel to Stainless ( Thats what heli coils are made of0 Not so good, Stainless to aluminum, terrible! Steve
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:35 am

Steve77t wrote:Just a short experience note for loop exhaust cones. We had problems back in the day with two springs holding them on and in place. Engine vibration would break one or both springs, and overboard the cone went. Went to using one spring and good tie wire for the other hole and never lost another one. That is if you are going to run this on a boat. My two engines have two springs for show, but one removed and wired when they run. Steve


I will use your suggestion.  I'll have to cut them off, they are very tight.  On my mod engine I use a long bolt through the holes with a spring around it.  It allows the bell horn to move around a little.  I agree, being that tight there might even be an issue with the actual elbow/horn.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:04 pm

Some more work on FD-53.  Carb throttle wire cut and fit and the ignition is now hung.

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Anyone know where to get some of these?  They are heat resistant sheathes for the spark plug wire to go between the exhaust pipes.

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Re: Looper Projects

Postby dave bernard » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:35 am

Auto parts or speed shop.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby chuckw » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:51 am

Looks great. Assume your new bride is supportive of all these endeavors!!! :lol:
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:18 am

chuckw wrote:Looks great. Assume your new bride is supportive of all these endeavors!!! :lol:


For the most part. It's a fine balancing act.

dave bernard wrote:Auto parts or speed shop.


Ok, what is it even called?
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby dave bernard » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:09 pm

Speed shop will know for sure. I have seen it in jeg's magazine.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Yellowjacket » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:43 pm

Those aren't sheaths, they are silicone hose that is called "scat" tubing and it is available at aircraft supply houses like Wag Aero...

That's really not a very good heat protection although they are somewhat heat resistant, they will melt if you get them too close to the exhaust.

Thermocool makes some sleeves that are reflective on the outside and have a ceramic cloth on the inside, and are made to shield spark plug wires and tubing and that would be a better choice than scat tubing.

What that tubing is doing is giving you a place to hold onto the wires and it's better than most other ways to hold onto the wires.  If you tie it down it will work, but it's not a very good insulator.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Fingerlakeskid » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:05 pm

Brandon - be very careful of running your plug wires closely bunched in parallel like that. Unless the wire insulation is in excellent shape, you have the potential to create a crossfire on another cylinder and the possibility of engine damage. I know you have limited choices in where you are able to run the wires with your stacks, just be aware.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:26 pm

Fingerlakeskid wrote:Brandon - be very careful of running your plug wires closely bunched in parallel like that. Unless the wire insulation is in excellent shape, you have the potential to create a crossfire on another cylinder and the possibility of engine damage. I know you have limited choices in where you are able to run the wires with your stacks, just be aware.


Thanks Stan.  Yeah, the wires are very good on the 6 cylinder and have never had an issue.  You're right that I don't have many options with the wiring.  The thing I could do would be to replace all the wires with longer ones.  They are not long enough right now to go under the lower exhaust pipe and then come up.  I was thinking about replacing the wires anyway.  They are very firm and old feeling (they don't freely bend and move like new wires would).
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Steve77t » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:30 pm

The looper elbows don't really get that hot as there is water on them when it runs or there should be, Steve
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:37 am

Pipes, carb, ignition, flywheel all installed.  The foot went on after I took the picture.  Also, got the wires installed as well.

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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Steve77t » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:51 pm

I thought you were going to put a SS ignition on it, That fairbanks ignition isn't as good as the battery operated Quincy system befoer the ss came out, Hmmmmmm
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby dave bernard » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:18 pm

I have a 4cyl lightning energizer complete.if that works.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Fastjeff » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:11 pm

I have a couple of Engergizers as well. MUCH better ignition systems.

Jeff
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:53 pm

Yes I remember and I am planning on it.  But I don't have several, just the one that is currently on the D.  This is for display for the time being before I get another one or two.

I am looking for the Merc 650 ignitions.  But I am not getting one for each looper at this time.  I will swap them out if I have to.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Steve77t » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:25 pm

The ones from a 500 and  650 will wok on both two and fours but a Six distributor will also work, you need to just change the disc inside.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:38 pm

Quincy Looper XF-6 is all boxed up and ready for assembly by Steve.  I love all of them, but I really can't wait to get this one rolling.  To get one this mint is really special especially since it is the second earliest 44ci Quincy Looper known to currently be in existence.

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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:02 pm

FC-71.  Very nice condition, but castor locked.  It is soaking right now so I can eventually take it apart.  Internals are more than I hoped for and then some.  Bores are clean.  As long as the crank hasn't suffered by sitting for 40 years like this then this should be a quicker project.  Messing around with this while I wait for bearings and other engines to return home.

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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:50 pm

Still soaking and locked.  Going to be trying some other methods, lacquer thinner, heat, and some other recommended products.  Really want to get this unbuttoned.  The castor is a real pain, but worth the effort.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby zul8tr » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:46 am

BJuby wrote:Still soaking and locked.  Going to be trying some other methods, lacquer thinner, heat, and some other recommended products.  Really want to get this unbuttoned.  The castor is a real pain, but worth the effort.


Have you tried kroil penetrating oil  :?:  Found it better than PB Blaster and other products.  

http://www.kanolabs.com/msn/
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:49 pm

It's on the list of things that have been recommended.  But I have decided to kick it up a notch using another recommendation.  Going to put it in a tub of lacquer thinner.

Thanks.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Fastjeff » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:45 pm

That much 'cut finder' will cost a fortune!

Jeff
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby zul8tr » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:19 pm

Fastjeff wrote:That much 'cut finder' will cost a fortune!

Jeff


Double yup and a waste of good LT.  :shock:

I have had good luck with the Kroil I recommended + heat in stubborn cases.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby zul8tr » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:28 pm

Fastjeff wrote:..."Make sure you helicoil both(all) spark plug holes if you plan to do one.  The reason is to ensure your heat range to the plug is the same between both(all) cylinders."

Now, that's an interesting point.

Jeff


Same issue with heat range and plugs to use when using a steel reducer insert to go from 18mm to 14mm plugs (ex:  icon_shh.gif  Yamato 80, 102, 202, 302) The steel insert requires a colder plug in the case of the Yamato. The affect of heat transfer with the ss helicoil will not be as dramatic as with the steel insert but probably a similar affect on heat range.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Fastjeff » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:19 pm

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i32 ... iuf1zv.jpg

This is the distributor I'm looking for.  I have 2 and a half Lightning Energizers (two good ones) with caps and rotors that I'd gladly swap for this one distributor (assuming it's okay).  No battery required with the Lightning Energizers.

Jeff
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:51 am

No thanks Jeff.  Going to stick with this for now.  This is what they ran, not that the energizers won't work, just trying to be authentic.  I plan on putting the brain-box in my boat so I can swap ignition and engines on the fly.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Steve77t » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:03 am

Fastjeff wrote:http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i326/Astrolia44/DCF933F9-EA39-4669-8EEC-6B21CAD9720E_zps0xiuf1zv.jpg

This is the distributor I'm looking for.  I have 2 and a half Lightning Energizers (two good ones) with caps and rotors that I'd gladly swap for this one distributor (assuming it's okay).  No battery required with the Lightning Energizers.

Jeff

Jeff, The distributor that you want is on all Merc 1000 SS 1250 and 1350 ss motors before the new type self contained. The early SS that was used on fours and sixes will also work but as you may have found fitment can be a problem. If you can find one on E bay for a four it too will work but you just have to change the disc and cap. Easy stuff. Steve
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Steve77t » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:14 am

zul8tr wrote:
Fastjeff wrote:That much 'cut finder' will cost a fortune!

Jeff


Double yup and a waste of good LT.  :shock:

I have had good luck with the Kroil I recommended + heat in stubborn cases.

Pete, The kroil oil is a good product for stuck steel and such, This motor is castor gum stuck and letting it sit in a tub of thinner will melt the gum and it will then move. You cannot be in a hurry or very expensive and parts that are no more will be broken, like the mid case or even split the cylinders. I had a Konig like that that 200 ftlbs would not make it rock or budge. About a three week soak in Lacquer thinner done the trick. You just let it soak and then give it a nudge in a couple day's. If it moves, just rock it back and forth, If not then let soak. I have never tried heat for the reason that though it may work, it is a bitch to get the motor pretty afterword. The smell is great though. And on some of these motors heat will loosen the sleeves up as they were glued in new. helicoils should never be used in a fuel motor period! You are asking for many piston problems and down time. It is good for me though because I make pistons! :lol:  Steve
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Fastjeff » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:12 am

..."If you can find one on E bay for a four it too will work but you just have to change the disc and cap. "

I see 'em, but they're kinda pricey; and there's no guarantee they'll work.

Jeff
Words spoken in two stroke heaven: There's no fuel like an oiled fuel.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby zul8tr » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:53 am

Steve77t wrote:
zul8tr wrote:
Fastjeff wrote:That much 'cut finder' will cost a fortune!

Jeff


Double yup and a waste of good LT.  :shock:

I have had good luck with the Kroil I recommended + heat in stubborn cases.

Pete, The kroil oil is a good product for stuck steel and such, This motor is castor gum stuck and letting it sit in a tub of thinner will melt the gum and it will then move. You cannot be in a hurry or very expensive and parts that are no more will be broken, like the mid case or even split the cylinders. I had a Konig like that that 200 ftlbs would not make it rock or budge. About a three week soak in Lacquer thinner done the trick. You just let it soak and then give it a nudge in a couple day's. If it moves, just rock it back and forth, If not then let soak. I have never tried heat for the reason that though it may work, it is a bitch to get the motor pretty afterword. The smell is great though. And on some of these motors heat will loosen the sleeves up as they were glued in new. helicoils should never be used in a fuel motor period! You are asking for many piston problems and down time. It is good for me though because I make pistons! :lol:  Steve


Steve

Thanks Good to know   icon_thumbup.gif never had a caster stuck engine.
Since lacquer thinner evaps a lot seems that the soak would have to be in a closed container  :?:

Pete
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:51 pm

I am just hoping the crank and rods aren't ruined due to long term methanol exposure  icon_thumbdown.gif
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Tom Brockmeyer » Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:23 am

BJuby wrote:I am just hoping the crank and rods aren't ruined due to long term methanol exposure  icon_thumbdown.gif


...Nope. The methanol was gone a couple weeks after they engine was turned off.  It doesn't hang around like the castor.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:50 pm

You're right that it doesn't hang around.  But the water has already been attracted and is what is left behind after the methanol evaporates.  This is why they flushed these engines with gas/oil to clear the methanol/castor out.  After talking to some more people I am even less optimistic about the crank being OK.  But if it isn't oh well.  I have to free it first anyway  :lol:
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Sat May 02, 2015 11:25 pm

FB-232 is back together and mounted.  I am waiting on spark plug wires and a main bearing for the foot, otherwise it would be all together.  This will not be run on this tower, I am waiting for a Bayer tower to be machined and it will go on that.

Image
KE3 KE4 KE7 KF5 KG4 KH7 Mk5 Mk7 Mk10 Mk15 Mk20(3) Mk25 Mk28 Mk55 Mk55E 350

KG4-H KG7-Q(2) KG9-Q 20H, 20H Pop(4) Mk25H 25xs 30H 400H, 55H Mod, 75H, 75AH Mod

Quincy FA-90, FB-199, FB-222, FB-232, FC-71, FC-74, FD-53, FD-86, FD-107, XF-6, XF-23
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Wed May 06, 2015 1:16 pm

Just four days of lacquer thinner in a spackle bucket and it comes loose by a hand turn of the driveshaft.   icon_thumbup.gif  Bores are perfect, pistons looks like they have a season on them if that.  Very happy.  Have to take off the rods to check the crank next.  It will get a full overhaul treatment of course.  New viton crank seals, needle and roller bearings, new rod bolts/nuts, and maybe rings.

Image
KE3 KE4 KE7 KF5 KG4 KH7 Mk5 Mk7 Mk10 Mk15 Mk20(3) Mk25 Mk28 Mk55 Mk55E 350

KG4-H KG7-Q(2) KG9-Q 20H, 20H Pop(4) Mk25H 25xs 30H 400H, 55H Mod, 75H, 75AH Mod

Quincy FA-90, FB-199, FB-222, FB-232, FC-71, FC-74, FD-53, FD-86, FD-107, XF-6, XF-23
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Fastjeff » Wed May 06, 2015 1:45 pm

I hope that driveshaft isn't rusted in there!

Jeff
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Wed May 06, 2015 4:40 pm

Oh, no it's a spare shaft I put in there to give me something more substantial to grip to rotate the engine easier.  Then use it as a grabbing point to pull it out of the assembly.
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Fastjeff » Wed May 06, 2015 5:59 pm

Figured that was it, but had to be a smartass!

My best customer dropped off a 9.8 with what was left of the drive shaft stuck in the PH.  Tried every trick I knew--and it's still stuck!

Jeff
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Steve77t » Wed May 06, 2015 8:14 pm

BJuby wrote:Just four days of lacquer thinner in a spackle bucket and it comes loose by a hand turn of the driveshaft.   icon_thumbup.gif  Bores are perfect, pistons looks like they have a season on them if that.  Very happy.  Have to take off the rods to check the crank next.  It will get a full overhaul treatment of course.  New viton crank seals, needle and roller bearings, new rod bolts/nuts, and maybe rings.

[ Image ]



It's amazing what a little lacquer thinner does to a castor stuck motor isn't ol buddy? Glad she is nice on the inside and yes I can make rings for that one too. Steve
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby Jeff Register » Sun May 10, 2015 8:33 pm

Thank you Brandon for sharing your project with us. i'm learning so much! Your first ride going to be so much fun, ENJOY!!
Jeff
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Re: Looper Projects

Postby BJuby » Sun May 31, 2015 9:15 pm

Very proud moment for us.  FA-90 is ALIVE!  First time started in probably 40-50 years!  Run times are short.  I didn't want to put too much time on it considering this is gasoline, not methanol.  This is an A class 15ci motor.  Approximately 45-55hp.

[youtube]4Ta_G8NGLxU[/youtube]

[youtube]9G7W5qBwrHw[/youtube]
KE3 KE4 KE7 KF5 KG4 KH7 Mk5 Mk7 Mk10 Mk15 Mk20(3) Mk25 Mk28 Mk55 Mk55E 350

KG4-H KG7-Q(2) KG9-Q 20H, 20H Pop(4) Mk25H 25xs 30H 400H, 55H Mod, 75H, 75AH Mod

Quincy FA-90, FB-199, FB-222, FB-232, FC-71, FC-74, FD-53, FD-86, FD-107, XF-6, XF-23
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